Should SAP Fiori be Freeori?

This is a guest post from John Appleby, global head of SAP HANA, Bluefin Solutions. He is writing in response to debates around SAP’s approach to Fiori pricing. We offer this as a conversation opener and not necessarily representative of diginomica’s position. 

simple UI fioriI’m in the midst of a very interesting pilot project right now with SAP that I can’t talk about yet, but I encourage you to come to the ASUG Annual Conference on June 2nd at SAPPHIRENOW in Orlando to see the presentation from Aviad Rivlin and I (assuming we get accepted!).

As part of this project, we’re moving a copy of Bluefin’s SAP CRM system onto SAP HANA, in the cloud, with the Fiori Launchpad for Sales Representative role. This involved upgrading our CRM system, getting Fiori running and then migrating it into the HANA Enterprise Cloud. Interesting times. As part of this, I came to believe after conversations with Dennis Howlett and Jon Reed that Fiori should be free. Let’s delve into why.

What is Fiori?

SAP Fiori is a set of business role-based “apps” that sit inside the SAP Fiori Launchpad, which is a container. It aims to increase productivity over the existing SAP products with the Apple iPhone philosophy: offer less functionality, but much easier to use, from anywhere. I’ve seen it for our CRM system and it is easy to use and slick. Wave 1 was 25 apps, Wave 2 is another 25 apps, and there are a further 4 waves already underway.

The Sales Rep app, for example, provides pricing, create and track orders & shipments, invoicing, account lead and opportunity management. All the basic stuff you need on the move.

So why make Fiori free?

Fiori dramatically improves the user experience

The WebUI screens on SAP CRM are OK, especially for power users, but the Fiori Sales Rep role is much more usable for your day-day users. Plus it is a responsive interface that runs on a Mobile. For other Fiori

Looking at how quickly the cloud players are moving (just look at the next-generation user interface from Workday), SAP needs to get people on Fiori, to protect the installed base from cloud attrition. In addition, SAP needs the good PR from happy customers much more than it needs the revenue from Fiori

Customers do not want to pay for in-situ innovation

Customers pay 22% maintenance for their software in most cases, and they expect to get something for this. Workday provide their new UI for free, which is what customers expect. Now, Fiori does provide benefits and so some customers are willing to pay up, but yet others aren’t, and will move to another vendor before paying their existing vendor for innovation in their core.

Fiori doesn’t always have a value case

Fiori is $150 a user flat fee, which is small change if you are using one of the bigger roles like Sales Representative. However if you are an employee, $150/user just to do approvals is a huge barrier to entry.

As a result, customers will only buy Fiori when they can implement multiple apps, or to subsets of users.

Fiori will drive end user licenses

I don’t have any facts to support this, but it makes sense from a strategy perspective. Fiori Launchpad hosts multiple Fiori apps for a given person. If I’m a sales rep then I could have approvals, accounts, and a bunch of other things. Each of these apps requires some user license of some kind – Fiori is never free.

If users are using Fiori, they will want new capabilities too, and those new capabilities have a sell-on, but only if people are using Fiori. Get customers on it, and get the account team in to sell-on.

Fiori will drive HANA adoption

One of the biggest barrier to HANA adoption is upgrades. Our system was on CRM 7.0, and needed upgrading 3 revisions to do either Fiori or HANA. This was a much more painful exercise than the HANA migration, and it required quite a lot of downtime, testing, rework and code changes. Plus, we haven’t done it in our productive landscape because there wasn’t enough business benefit.

Making Fiori free changes that equation, because I’m pretty certain our CRM business owner would love to have Fiori (but can’t justify paying for it). So Fiori drives the upgrade to CRM 7.0 EhP3, which is also the version that HANA needs. Driving customers to upgrade to the latest version makes driving HANA adoption that bit easier.

Final Words

SAP has some history of doing this, having provided NetWeaver Gateway free for many scenarios, and creating an Open Source version of SAPUI5, which is the framework for Fiori.

I believe that including Fiori in the underlying user license would be a very smart business decision for SAP. It would protect and drive core user licenses, improve the net promoter sentiment of SAP, and drive Suite on HANA adoption – all of which are key metrics in SAP’s business model.

There are people who are paid on Fiori sales who may disagree, but to my mind they should be paid on adoption, because Fiori adoption drives the underlying sales model.

What do you think?

Disclosure: SAP is a partner at time of writing.

John Appleby

John Appleby

John Appleby is global head of SAP HANA solutions at Bluefin Solutions. He manages a global team of consultants on four continents and develops a go-to market strategy for SAP HANA including demand generation, marketing propositions, social media marketing and consulting delivery from POC through to go live. He is an SAP Mentor.
John Appleby

@applebyj

GM at @BluefinSolution US. SAP Mentor, Writer, Builder, Englishman, Foodie. In-Memory Computing aficionado.
John Appleby
John Appleby

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106 comments
MaikHolzan
MaikHolzan

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Taking into consideration training's initial two methods, a typical drain CRM training program 

VitalyV
VitalyV

Thanks John for the interesting post. Heated discussion is just awesome. I'll avoid it and will comment on the first paragraph, which was missed out in the talkback :-)

Happy to be the reason you started the Fiori project at Bluefin. It will be very interesting discussion at SAPPHIRE. Hope we'll be able to share the details of this pilot soon for the early feedback and raise the bar of the Fiori value for the end users. 


Vitaly

sergiothefrank
sergiothefrank

I like so much the "Freeori" term and I'm supporting it.

Underline technology is one of the best have never been proposed but comparing proposed functionalists with those in the Business Suite is like comparing a drop with the ocean.

Half of Fiori Apps in wave 1 are about workflow that at the end I do not see so popular at customer site. Then, I think is a bit odd to count three for Create Sales Order, Update Sales Order and Track Sales Orders and three for the same on the purchase side.

Wave 2 probably adds 10 interesting functionalities and hundreds more dependent upon HANA.

I see the terrific power of SAP Fiori but in terms of effort, at the time of WDA, we got similar new opportunities for free (e.g. Lean Sales Order WDA).

Enhancing a SAP Fiori App is not so easy as most people thinks but from my personal experience, the most critical issue is that expectation about good responsive adaptation to smartphone is not so sure. Have you never tried the MySpend App from an iPhone?

In add, I got bad feedback about the login process and the missing feature to save user/password into the device (e.g. settings).

To me SAP Fiori forever but as templates to be finalized at customer site in fast running projects.

Krisgo
Krisgo

I am rather surprised that this discussion is taking place in the age of self-driving cars, intelligent robots and learning thermostats. Calling a responsive web page an application sounds preposterous, and charging for it outrageous. 

Duncanwjones
Duncanwjones

Kudos to zuryariv for replying, but talking to career SAP implementers and developers is NOT talking to customers. Customers are the CXOs who desperately need to free up budget for vital projects to win and retain their customers. Customer firms have already paid for Fiori several times over. Yes, it is valuable, but insufficient in itself to justify the millions of Euros that customers have already paid for it. The question isn't Free or Not Free; it is Pay Once or Pay Twice.

SAP customers, and customer advocates like me, have to help it transition to the new world: the SaaS mindset, whether or not you are SaaS deployment. In this world software providers must invest in current offerings to retain their existing revenue stream, not merely because they think they can package the result as a separate SKU. I agree with John, that it would be in SAP's interests as well as in its customers' interests to correct this mistake.

jhmoy
jhmoy

One thing that perplexes me is the argument that value has a price.  On one level, I can understand why a vendor can argue this.  But with SAP, customers have been receiving enhancement packages for the price of their maintenance dollars for years.  So on another level, charging for Fiori could be argued as double dipping by the vendor.  If I deconstruct ERP Fiori apps technically, they run with SAPUI5 and APIs via NetWeaver Gateway.  Yet SAP released HR Renewals in recent years which included the HR Professionals landing page, again based on SAPUI5 and APIs via NetWeaver Gateway.  Here is an example below which I grabbed from this blog by @SAP_Jarret http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/hcm/blog/2012/10/10/sap-new-hr-renewal-functionality-and-roadmap



This initiative was to improve the user experience for the end user, in this case targeted at HR Professionals. yet we should not forget that SAP released this without any additional licensing cost.  So, from that perspective SAP customers seem to be getting contradictory messages from SAP.  And understandably SAP customers should be asking why.


Cheers


John



applebyj
applebyj

@SAP_Jarret I always believe that the best blogs happen when the best stuff happens in the comments. It’s not my blog any more :-)

zuryariv
zuryariv

@dahowlett


Hi Dennis,

First of all - can we agree to stop with this "disconnect" theme? As someone who speaks to customers and developers on a daily basis (and hears what they think about our UI on a daily basis), being told that i'm disconnected just because I happen to be an SAP employee is simply out of order. You hear things from customers, I hear things from customers. We can all come to whatever conclusions we want from the things we hear without being labeled "disconnected".
Second - I agree to your point on the two approaches, but what i'm hearing is actually approach C: Hey Mr. Customer - You have all the tools you want to fix your UI (GW, SAPUI5, etc.). They are FREE. Do you want new apps? New UX paradigms on top of your existing business process? Here is the price tag.
Which brings up another point that I think gets lost in the heat of discussion. Fiori is not just about new look and feel and different colors of buttons. Most of the work around Fiori is about decomposing the business processes into tasks which are relevant for *users* today. To illustrate - I was sitting with a long time SAP customer and the basis admin told me - i've been doing Order to cash for 20 years. You wont convince me that this is an easy process or a simple one. And the answer is - correct. but there are certain tasks within this process which can be decomposed and simplified. That customer ended up adopting Fiori for the sake of one app - which is Invoice Approval. Becasue for them - the ability to make invoice approval easy and accessible to all of their middle management was a novel idea. It not just about making the FI/HR/CRM processes with a better UI for the FI/HR/Sales professional. I think there is a lot of value here and I dont understand why someone would expect to get this value for free.
@qmacro - Sorry. You are right. The vast majority of responses :)

jhmoy
jhmoy

Firstly, what a great blog by John Appleby!


Just adding my thoughts and opinions ...


- The argument that SAP needs a sales channel to get new things into the hands of customers makes me depressed about the on-premise SAP world.  It hands a free kick to the cloud model, where the vendor can push out innovations at will without a sales force (or should I have said, with a SalesForce?).  Surely SAP can do better.


- When I discussed the free or not free for Fiori argument with a colleague, he intelligently commented that 'no change is free'.  I thought about it, and in particular for on-premise, that rings true.  Even if you do want Fiori apps, you will need to add NetWeaver Gateway to your landscape, add some server side add-ins,  open up access via internet (reverse proxys, firewall changes etc.), instantiate a (hopefully small) project or initiative to get it all done.  To leverage some Fiori apps, you may need to even upgrade your system or even put HANA underneath it! Check here http://help.sap.com/fiori_bs2013/helpdata/en/99/e464520e2a725fe10000000a441470/content.htm?frameset=/en/29/9a5652d8c3725fe10000000a441470/frameset.htm for the list of apps and their dependencies.  So, irrespective of the SAP list price, implementing Fiori is not free.  


- And it is not just about licensing of Fiori, there are licensing layers above (to the user) and below (to the application and persistence layer) you may need to add.  As John Appleby mentioned, you still need end-user licenses to leverage Fiori in addition to the Fiori app price (to my understanding it is not built into the Fiori price), you need licenses for underlying applications (of course), and for Fiori analytics apps you need HANA as the persistence, which means to take advantage of these you need the appropriate HANA license .... and be careful, I have seen a customer which paid for HANA on BW which doesn't qualify for these apps ... they were informed they would need to purchase HANA on ERP (of course, everyone needs to check with their account executive).  And finally, to improve the load performance of Fiori apps, SAP is recommending the use of Kapsel which comes with a SAP Mobile Platform license.  So customers need to have deep pockets when you add all this up, not to mention the actual implementation costs from my previous point. 


Personally I agree with John's arguments that Fiori should be free.  There is already enough complexity and cost that customers have to burden, the added cost of Fiori (even if small) can be what breaks the camel's back when it comes to customer decisions about adoption.  And I don't think SAP can afford in the long term for a slice of customers to find their own UI path in the interest of short term earnings, because this type of fracturing of the on-premise user base (where some customers go with .Net solutions etc.) in the long term will cost SAP.  


Cheers


John Moy


PaulTom1
PaulTom1

Whilst I would love Fiori to be free, I also don't believe that SAP would of invested in it and developed the relatively good product it is, without there being a license fee attached.  We have seen with other products, e.g. SAP Portal, that if there is no license fee involved, then they do not really invest in the product.  

However, SAP do need to be careful.  The licensing for future releases of Fiori is unclear.  If you have bought Wave 1, then you get most of the Wave 2 apps included.  It is not clear when they bring the next 1000+ screens how these will be licenced.

All potential new customers will be shown SAP with this as the frontend, so will expect it to be part of the standard product and I can see SAP having issues if they do not bundle it in. Having said that, when SAP are selling license deals, it is amazing what they discount.


zuryariv
zuryariv


I'm probably going to regret this, but I completely disagree with this position (and 100% of the responses). Important disclaimer - While I am an SAP employee, I do not in any way represent SAP in this discussion. I've just been doing UI stuff in SAP for the last 10 years and thus have an opinion.


1. Fiori is a change for SAP not only in the way apps looks like, but also in the way you will be able to renovate on UI going forward. Meaning that by transitioning customers to Fiori it not just solves the immediate problem today, but rather puts SAP in a place where is can rapidly change the UI in the upcoming years. Because one of the things we are seeing most is that the velocity of UI changes is increasing. So its not enough to just fix the UI now - its all about laying the groundwork (oData, REST, etc.) for changing it tomorrow. Therefor I look at Fiori as not just a product but also as a target architecture, one which is much better suited to deal with future changes.


2. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The best channel SAP has today to bring innovation to customer is through the account executives and through its salesforce. You can write 5 gazillion blog posts in SCN on how cool a technology is, but not one CIO/head of LoB/Decision Maker will read it. It will get all of us geeks (present company included) excited, we'll read the specs and debate whether we will use FPM or WDA PB for our next project. But the adoption will come only from two things a) a sales rep going and pushing it to his account or b) a new app with clear value prop which uses the technology. I keep bringing up the NetWeaver Business Client as an example. Something which we have been showing in TechEd since 2008 and still the adoption is very low compared to the Fiori adoption. Another example is SAPUI5. I have been there in the inception meetings of SAPUI5 (f.k.a. "Phoenix") and I can tell you that all of you guys getting excited about SAPUI5 is cool, since you are the early adopters. But only after SAPPHIRE last year, when Fiori was launched - did we start seeing the "Pull" from customers. Becasue they realized that SAP is puuting all of its weight and making a strategic investment in HTML5. So - If Fiori is free, it will be an IT technical upgrade decision and not an HR purchase decision and that is a very different discussion.


3. About the price itself - I'm not a sales person (thank god!) but from what little I know, the objections here are not really based on reality. A list price is exactly what it is - A list price. And customer look at the package of 50-150 apps, and the price tag and tell the AE - We will only be using part of the capabilities and based on that they negotiate a discount. Furthermore - to the best of my knowledge, Customers who bought the license for the initial 25 apps are getting all the subequent apps (wave 2,3 and 4) as part of the same license. At what amount of new apps does a 100 EUR price tag become reasonable? 100? 200? 


4. Last but not least - The comparison to workday or any other cloud lifecycle is wrong (I mean you, Dennis). If you want to talk about cloud, then lets compare apples to apples and not apples to watermelons. Compare the velocity of innovation we have in SuccessFactors, In Jam, in the Cloud Portal or the Cloud Platform to Workday.


Will be heading for the bunker now.


Yariv

qmacro
qmacro

@Krisgo  I'm sorry but I'm not sure I get your point. A responsive web page can be an application, within or outside of the Fiori context. On what basis are you declaring your outrage, exactly? 


I'm also confused at the current "likes" on your comment, if I'm to be completely honest. Perhaps there's something I don't get.

jhmoy
jhmoy

Interestingly today, SAP posted this ...

http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/hcm/blog/2014/02/13/improve-payroll-data-validation-with-sap-payroll-control-center-add-on


It relates to new HTML5 user interfaces provided for payroll in ERP as part of HR Renewal 2.0.  As per the blog ... "This will be the first wave of UX and process innovation for payroll".  Yet interestingly, similar to my point above, customers get this as part of Enhancement Package 7.  So (to my reading) no additional licensing.  That's more like it.  But it reinforces my point about how SAP customers seem to be getting contradictory messages on the licensing argument here.


Have a look at the screenshot below, and tell me that doesn't look like Fiori ...

qmacro
qmacro

@applebyj @SAP_Jarret  John, it was never your blog; it might have been your blog POST, but that's a different matter.


Yours pedantically


dj

dahowlett
dahowlett moderator

@zuryariv - No-one is saying that value doesn't have a price. What is being said is that UI refresh with a price tag is not appreciated and especially when it's handled unevenly, depending on the tech SAP is deploying in the customer landscape. 

Perception wins, every time.  


Latest blog post: Customer Insight 2014

SAP_Jarret
SAP_Jarret

@zuryariv @dahowlett  When SAP announced Fiori 7 of the first 25 apps were HR based which tells me it was considered an important strategic area and they are the following:


Approve Requests

Approve Leave Request

Approve Time Sheet

My Leave Request

My Time Sheets

My Pay Stub

My Benefits


I keep coming back to seeing your pay stub is not a process SAP has reinvented and many of these HR ones above are not "reinvention" which makes the per employee pricing for SAP HR customers a VERY tough pill to swallow.


Also great comment @jhmoy especially about the sales channel and one would also think that channel would also be happy to show their customers new offerings that dont come with a price tag to help support the many that do.

applebyj
applebyj

@jhmoy  Thanks for the kind word John and you make some good points. I love blogs that have a mind of their own and where the good stuff happens in the comments.

sudhirkgupta
sudhirkgupta

@lukemarson @vlvl its what we call UI transformation. Don't remember a massive doubled up per user fee for ITS to Webdynpro java journey.

applebyj
applebyj

@PaulTom1  Thanks for sharing Paul.


The SAP Portal was created in a world where Enterprise Portals could be sold for good money. That world is gone, and competitors are providing UI renewal as part of the core. SAP gets good money from the maintenance install base.


Yes most of the license bundles I see include Fiori in the mix.

SAP_Jarret
SAP_Jarret

@zuryariv  While I dont agree with your viewpoint (as you can probably sense from my comment above) and am looking at this from mostly a SAP HCM and HR competition standpoint perspective I do have a lot of respect for you bringing your personal opinion and deep expertise on this topic into a public discussion setting as that take a lot of guts.


The only way a topic like this moves forward is to get the discussion started and hear a lot of different POV's much like we saw on the Gateway licensing topic a few years back.

dahowlett
dahowlett moderator

@zuryariv  Good to hear from you Yariv and I appreciate all the disclaimers so I'll frame this as a reflection of the disconnect I often see between those inside SAP and those outside. 

The commercial reality in the field is that significant numbers of customer and their UG representatives see no reason to pay for a UI (their perception) when they already pay for maintenance which has consistently been held up as *inclusive* of enhancements for some years now. 

Perception IS reality - ergo Betamax & VHS springs to mind. 

I have to giggle when you talk innovation because if you were correct then WDAY would not be on a $1 billion trajectory by 2015, SAP would not be concerned about it, neither would it be concerned about competition in FICO, CRM or HCM. The truth is that SAP is deeply concerned on all those fronts. 

Case in point: Flextronix - long time customer - gone. HP - long time customer - gone. Pieces of Nestlé - gone...the list gets longer by the day. These are not trivial deals. 

Customers are increasingly concerned that they are seeing nothing by way of consumable applications innovation that delivers breakthrough value other than tweaks for back office. That's not where they are looking for action. 

Now - does a whole landscape view change that when it embraces HANA? Possibly.

You talk correctly on negotiation but that's not the point. From the customer's perception which do you think sounds better? A: Mr Customer - we have this great UI replacement. You can have it for free. There may be some work to slot it in but the basic deal is free. Users will love it and you'll get more value because more users will want it. That will probably mean some more licencing down the track but here you go. What's not to like? OR B:  Mr Customer - we have this great UI replacement. It's $150/user/app but (wink, wink) I can get you a great deal - probably down to $20. Whats not to like? 

I have always said - I will gladly pay a premium for value which is new, clear and obvious, but I won't pay for something I can get from a competitor that's bundled into my price and which I perceive as a good deal. Right now - Fiori does not look that way. 

So - if you're saying the customer is wrong - then fine. Try convincing SUGEN and the other groups because so far that argument doesn't wash with the people who ultimately pay your salaries.

Now - there is an upside. Some of what I have seen with Fiori holds genuine promise to opening doors that will mean more revenue  for SAP. But...SAP has to give to get.

Finally - I have been fielding multiple requests from end user organizations on this topic the last 24 hours. Regardless of what you may believe, customers simply do not see it the way you suggest. There's no way around that. 

applebyj
applebyj

@zuryariv  Hey Yariv


Thanks for speaking out. I intended to start a discussion and was making a one-sided case. You make the other side, and it has some merits.


And I certainly don't mean to say that Fiori has no value. It has a lot of value, and that's why SAP charges for it and customers are buying it. I just believe that many more will adopt if it is included in the user license, and that will bring on knock-on benefits that are much bigger than charging for it.


I tried to structure this piece very carefully to bring the benefits of including Fiori into the user license, rather than saying it is valueless and bashing the value of apps. There is value, though I would argue that many employees in many firms only need 1-2 apps, and $150 per user in those instances is the same cost as the employee license again.


An alternative would be a Freemium model, but I think that may be more confusing than anything.


John


dahowlett
dahowlett

@InFullBloomUS That was John's story - we just acted as the platform and moderated both the story and comment threads.

Krisgo
Krisgo

@qmacro @Krisgo  

Application - something that solves a problem fully

Web page (Responsive or not) - a partial view into the solution to the problem

SAP_Jarret
SAP_Jarret

@qmacro @Krisgo  Since you asked about why I "liked" his comment, I find the fact that a company with 80K employees (one I was recently at) would have to pay 12M USD to have their employees be able to view their pay stubs using Fiori "preposterous" & "outrageous"

kumarrk21
kumarrk21

@SAP_Jarret @applebyj I don't get the comments on process simplification. Thought Fiori was about UI simplification; there is a subtle diff

PaulTom1
PaulTom1

@applebyj I agree that most of SAP's competitors are providing UI renewal for free. My point is though that SAP have never charged a license for SAP Portal and have never invested heavily in it, post the initial EP6 investment. I think the same can be said for other components such as content server.

I feel that the way SAP works is that unless there is a business case to sell licenses, then there will not be the investment in the product.  With Fiori they obviously did not think about your comment that it actually creates more backend licenses, which I agree with.


zuryariv
zuryariv

@applebyj - I understand what you are saying. But here is my point - you have all the tools to build your own "fiori" app - You have SAPUI5, you have Gateway. Build your own app in that sense is free (for existing licensed users). So - Getting the apps, built on SAP's understanding how you need to do things is the premium offering in this case. 

dahowlett
dahowlett

@InFullBloomUS np - it has been a bit of a moderator's "challenge" day - but all good - convo has been top quality IMO

qmacro
qmacro

@Krisgo @qmacro  I'm very sorry, but I still don't get the point you're making. Either I need to drink the kool-aid, or you need to be patient enough to explain how "application vs web page" is directly relevant to this debate. Also, I don't particularly agree with the distinction you're making. Perhaps that's part of the issue I'm having. Ah well.

Duncanwjones
Duncanwjones

@PaulTom1 @SAP_Jarret@qmacro@Krisgo

You're right, app or not, enhanced or re-engineered its irrelevant. I slightly disagree with last sentence. Question is whether SAP should charge for enhancements Once or Twice.  Either charge for them via Maintenance subscription, or unbundle enhancements from support fees and sell add-on apps separately, but not both. The commercial model of subscribing for unspecified future enhancements is obsolete IMO. 

PaulTom1
PaulTom1

@SAP_Jarret @qmacro @Krisgo  Trust me, a 80K employee company would not be paying 12M USD for Fiori.  It'd be closer to 3M USD if they negotiate it correctly (this is based on my experience on what SAP are offering my large customers).

However, this is where the whole thing falls down - why would you pay that amount of money, when you could develop your own suite of UI5 apps, meeting your exact requirements and a better UI, for less?

Not sure about the responsive web page comment, this debate is simpler than that, should improved functionality be charged for by SAP or not? 

qmacro
qmacro

@SAP_Jarret @qmacro @Krisgo  his comment, at least to me, rather misses the point - it's not responsive web page vs application. As I mentioned early on in this thread, I'm not saying a definite "yes SAP should charge" but I am saying it's a lot more than a 'responsive web page' debate. Details matter.

applebyj
applebyj

@PaulTom1 @applebyj  So yes, SAP did charge for the Portal. I'm not convinced it was ever a serious revenue stream but they did indeed charge for it.


On the latter point, success in SAP drives product development. Most of the great products have started with a small SWAT team (think HANA, Fiori, River) and not a huge Engineering team (think PCUI, ByDesign). This supports your point.


And that's just it, SAP needs to understand there are other indirect success metrics, like adoption. These are important to the long-term success and not the quarter. Maybe this is the change that needs to occur more than anything.

jonerp
jonerp moderator

@PaulTom1 Just a quick comment (thanks for putting your informed stances into the thread). 

When you say: "I feel that the way SAP works is that unless there is a business case to sell licenses, then there will not be the investment in the product. "

You could well be right. And THAT is something that I personally believe needs to change from a business case perspective. It has to do with how you get buy in and market share in the so-called digital economy. I have in mind a blog post to get into some of the reasons for this, which apply well beyond SAP.

applebyj
applebyj

@zuryariv  Yariv, we are not going to agree on this, but I applaud your candor. It's good to stand up for what you believe in.